AFTER getting off to a raucous start and interrupted by three suspensions, today’s scheduled hearing on the impeachment complaint(s) filed against Pres. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo concluded on a considerably less antagonistic note than the first one held last August 10, though the House justice committee remains stuck on how to proceed with the impeachment process.

Triggered by objections to issues that were being included in the hearing’s agenda, Rep. Simeon Datumanong, committee chair, had to suspend the proceedings a third time. Pro-impeachment representatives protested the manifestation of Albay Rep. Edcel Lagman to add to his set of “prejudicial questions” two motions:

  • the motion filed by Arroyo lawyer Pedro Ferrer to strike all the impeachment complaints filed against Pres. Arroyo, except the first complaint by lawyer Oliver Lozano (which was listed as a priority issue in the agenda); and
  • the motion of Rep. Rodante Marcoleta to have the hearing deferred citing the committee’s lack of jurisdiction to determine the proper impeachment complaint.

Prior to this episode, Datumanong called for a brief suspension of the hearing twice over the suggestion that he inhibit himself from the impeachment proceedings in light of his apparent bias in handling the complaint. Rep. Roilo Golez cited a television interview where Datumanong had said that the amended complaint should be treated as different from the original complaint filed by Lozano since it is in violation of the one-year ban on more than one impeachment proceeding initiated against the same official. The committee chair however denied making such a comment.

Impeachment complaint endorsers also reminded Datumanong of his previous appointments by Pres. Arroyo as public works and justice secretary. Another congressman, Rep. Antonio Serapio (2nd district, Valenzuela, NPC), brought up the case of Golez, who had to resign his position as chair of the national defense committee investigating the wiretapping scandal after he called on the president to resign.

Pro-administration congressmen came to Datumanong’s defense, saying the chair cannot be compelled to inhibit himself as it is a decision only he can make. Several others began raising points of order and objections at the same time, which prompted the chair to call for a second suspension.

In a caucus during the third suspension, majority and minority committee members (or non-complainants and complainants as they preferred to be called) eventually agreed to subject to a debate the issue on how they will proceed — whether to tackle the “prejudicial questions” raised by Rep. Lagman first or to start determining sufficiency in form and substance of the complaints.

Each side was given 20 minutes to present their case. The non-complainants, led by Reps. Salacnib Baterina (1st district, Ilocos Sur, Lakas-CMD) and Luis Villafuerte (2nd district, Camarines Sur, Kampi), argued that the issue of which of the complaints should be considered has to be addressed first before determining sufficiency in form and substance. Baterina, one of five vice chairs, said that given the time difference in their referral to the justice committee, the original Lozano complaint already foreclosed the possibility for the other complaints.

Villafuerte stressed that addressing this jurisdictional issue is not a technicality, even comparing the exercise to a horse race where the strength of horses should be first determined before they are entered in a race.

On the side of the complainants, Reps. Ronaldo Zamora (lone district, San Juan, PMP) and Francis Escudero (1st district, Sorsogon, NPC) led the charge. Zamora insisted that Lagman’s “prejudicial questions” are matters of substance that are replicated in the Ferrer motion to strike. “These ‘prejudicial questions’ are not prejudicial as they are premature,” he said, adding that neither the House rules nor the rules of court as suppletory to the impeachment rules allow the filing of a motion to dismiss.

On the amended Lozano complaint, Zamora said, “This is the complaint that gives the President her day in court and a chance to vindicate herself. The main avenue for addressing the credibility crisis she faces is to throw the strongest possible case against her. Not confronting this will only continue to undermine her presidency. If she survives the strongest complaint,  then she could finally put this behind her. This is the closure that all of us want. Only then can we move forward.”

Escudero asserted that there is no legal basis for addressing prejudicial questions as these are not in the rules, and that they properly belong to discussions on sufficiency in form and substance. “It is prejudicial to the President, to the country, to our people if our hands are tied to these prejudicial questions,” he said.

The minority leader reminded his colleagues that the intent of the framers of the Constitution was for a more liberal interpretation of the provisions on impeachment proceedings precisely to avoid deadlocks. He also clarified that the charter only prohibits initiating of impeachment proceedings and not the filing of several complaints.

Refuting Villafuerte’s horse-race analogy of the issue of jurisdiction, Escudero says it cannot be called a race when there’s only one horse competing. This has the effect, he adds, of unfairly giving the president the option as to which complaint she wishes to answer.

For his part, Lagman argued that while “prejudicial questions” may not be in the rules, they are acknowledged. “These are anterior or antecedent issues that must be addressed as they would impact on the jurisdiction of the committee,” he said. "This is like ‘putting the cart before the horse,’ which is not in accordance with the rules."

Reacting to the liberality of interpretation of the Constitutional provision on impeachment proceedings that Escudero pointed out, Lagman said that the time bar strictly disallows a multiplicity of complaints to prevent high officials from being harassed by an impeachment complaint.

Besides, he said the principal mandate of Congress is to legislate, and not to be hampered by an impeachment process.

The rest of the members were given three minutes each to express their views, which largely delved on clarifications and interpretations of legal and constitutional matters like the rules of court and criminal procedures, the Supreme Court ruling regarding the definition of "initiating of impeachment proceedings" and the one-year bar on impeachment proceedings.

Following are summarized points raised by some of the committee members:

Rep. Clavel Martinez (4th district, Cebu, Lakas-CMD)

  • The amended complaint is never treated differently from the original complaint, as amendments take the place of the original.
  • Prejudicial questions exist only in the minds of some members who are prejudiced against the impeachment complaint.
  • The committee should be dealing with the determination of form and substance, not foolish questions.

Rep. Jacinto Paras (1st district, Negros Oriental, LDP)

  • On the issue of which complaint was initiated first, the referral speaks of session days, not minutes or days. There are three complaints that have been initiated simultaneously.
  • The amended complaint and the Lozano complaint are one and the same. The latter is subsumed in the amendments.

Rep. Prospero Pichay Jr. (1st district, Surigao del Sur, Lakas-CMD)

  • The justice committee has no jurisdiction to determine which of the three complaints is to be recognized. Such is an administrative function of House Speaker Jose de Venecia Jr.

Rep. Etta Rosales (Akbayan)

  • Lagman’s “prejudicial questions” are not really prejudicial questions as understood in the Rules of Court — questions in a civil case that determines a separate criminal case and thus have to be resolved first.
  • Rep. Lagman can raise his “prejudicial questions” at the proper time when sufficiency in substance is being discussed.

Rep. Mauricio Domogan (lone district, Baguio City, Lakas-CMD)

  • The committee should first address the issue of jurisdiction.
  • The president is charged with offenses outside of her incumbency.

Rep. Teodoro Casiño (Bayan Muna)

  • There are only two complaints — the Lozano complaint as amended, and the one filed by Atty. Lopez, which has since been withdrawn.
  • The pursuit of justice is best assured with the more substantial amended complaint.

Rep. Antonino Roman (1st district, Bataan, LP)

  • There are no prejudicial questions. The better standard is for us to adopt a complaint that will give credibility to the process and we are able to justify to the people that we have not given Pres. Arroyo any undue advantage.
  • We should give life and credibility to the Constitution.

Rep. Teofisto Guingona III (2nd district, Bukidnon, LDP)

  • The finding of sufficiency in form may leave out the better complaint.
  • Francisco ruling of the Supreme Court is not quite at point in this case as the decision in the case of Supreme Court Chief Justice Hilario Davide Jr. involved two separate impeachment proceedings, the second subsequently filed after the first was dismissed.

Rep. Aurelio Umali (3rd district, Nueva Ecija, Lakas-CMD)

  • Nobody in the plenary objected to the simultaneous referral of the three complaints.

Rep. Vincent Crisologo (1st district, Quezon City, LDP-KNP)

  • Complaints can be heard in one impeachment proceeding.

Tomorrow, the other members will have the opportunity to share their positions on what the committee should tackle first. A vote on the matter is likely to follow.

48 Responses to Justice committee still stuck on how
to proceed with impeachment process

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apollo

August 17th, 2005 at 2:32 am

alam niyo likas akong ingitero…..lol

ingit ako ke aga muhlach…. aba dati nakikita ko lang ang damuho sa spkg… ngayon tinatawag na batikang actor at masuwerte pa sa asawa… sana naman maging napakagaan ng mga problema ko katulad niya… alam mo na – namumuroblema sa traffic na dinudulot ng mga protesta laban sa duwende… sarap ano…. traffic lang ang problema hindi man lang naramdaman kung ano ang ibig sabihin ng pagkakayurak sa pinakakaingatan mong boto…. wheeeee— sweet!!!

ingit din ako ke mike defensor…. lakas gumoyo ng animal eh…lol… lakas dating ng ipangalandakang retokado daw ang garci-tapes, tapos mas malakas pumusta ng resignation sabay-atras….lol…. alam mo pag nakalaro ko ng basketball ito hahawakan ko muna ang pusta bago maglaro baka umatras eh…lol…. teka…. ano kayang pinakain ni gma dito at kinain na rin ‘ata ang amor propio?

inggit din ako ke garci…. aba shit buhay hari ang gago… bakit? ikaw man din ang itinatago ng husto ng administration eh talagang wala ng makakakita sa iyo… pusta tayo me blackmail letters ang damuho kaya hindi pa pinapapatay ni mike arroyo…. siempre pa kung hindi niya tatawagan ang mga contact niya to confirm he’s still alive lalabas din iyon…. so mega-happening ang tarantadong ugat ng lahat… sarap buhay baga kasi everytime he speaks the words “or else…” eh nagkukumahog pa ang mga bata ng duwendeng sumagot ng “yes, sir”…lol

at ingit din ako sa mga tongressman natin…. [hoy mga ukinayo amamin ma-amuan me mit dayta araramidin niyo nga dakdakis]…. duwende must have promised them heaven and earth para lang hindi matuloy ang impeachment…. ano kaya ang mga carrot on a stick incentives na inilalawit ng duwende sa mukha nila….. ilang milyon na naman ng bangkaroteng kabang yaman ang winaldas ng duwende para magsipag-sunod ang mga tongresista?…. weeee- laking pera noon…

at ang huli sa lahat eh ingit ako sa mga hapon….. bakit? hindi naman sa dahilang maunlad sila….. nai-inggit ako dahil sa bansa nila magmula sa mga kumpanya at maging sa gobyerno kadalasan pag nagkakaroon ng “no-confidence vote” sa liderato… karamihan eh nagha-harakiri [ritual suicide] – alam mo na nagpapakamatay sa hiya…..

sana kung ita-try nilang talagang pigilan ang impeachment process – lahat ng mga tongressman [we are watching u shitheads], pati na mga ka-alyado sa senado [we are watching u 2 ms.asylum] eh magharakiri kasama na ang duwende…. kahit paano kung maghaharakiri sila eh maiibsan ang ingit sa kili-kili ko…. lol

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Duck Vader

August 17th, 2005 at 4:54 am

Tanong lang, kung may wiling sumagot. In your opinon, kailan at paano papatayin ng allies ni GMA yung impeachment sa House? Hindi ko kasi alam kung gusto nilang mag-drag on ito hanggang magsawa tao, or papatayin nila kaagad bago pumunta si GMA sa US sa September (tuloy pa yun di ba?)

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ka emong

August 17th, 2005 at 8:19 am

sana pag alis nya wag na sya bumalek.

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Rizalist

August 17th, 2005 at 8:20 am

The Law is a Labyrinth for most people. But there is a sense of justice that acts as kind of a sixth sense. It’s a bullshit detector that is active even in the most untrained, but attentive spectator or usisero.

I was amused by Rep. Salacnib Baterina’s proposition that the Lozano complaint foreclosed consideration of the Lopez and Amended complaints because it was referred to the committee ahead of them by minutes or seconds. Shades of Esau and Jacob! Actually, he knows better than most the distinction between “complaint” and “proceeding” and was being disingenuous.

If last week’s long suspension of the committee hearing was done to prepare for the Lagman Gambit involving prejudicial issues, it did not work except to delay the process.

Now, not only the bloggers know, but the public does too, that you can have many, many impeachment complaints, as long as they are all part of the one impeachment proceeding per year permitted.

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soledad t. tubay

August 17th, 2005 at 9:42 am

Pwede kayang mag serve ng drinks sa hearing para sa mga allies ni Arroyo. Huwag mainggit ang mga pro impeachment dahil may cyanide ang drinks. Para tapos na ang debate. Tuloy na ang impeachment.

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concerned citizen

August 17th, 2005 at 9:59 am

very frustrating impeachment hearing kahapon. they are trying to kill the impeachment. there is a plan by malacanan legal body headed by nachura, makalintal to kill the impeachment proceedings.

kitang kitang naman ang majority block nitong mga tongressmen ni aroyo. halata ang conspiracy between them. bias si datumanong na two time appointed ni aroyo sa cabinet-doj & pulic highways sec. kaya tama lang si golez na dapat mag inhibit si datumanong kagaya ng pagwithdraw nya noon sa committee sa wiretapping probe. pero malinaw sagot ni datumanong. he will not inhibit. kapal ng mukha. halatang halata naman na bias sya as per ANC viewpoint, mga declaration nya favoring aroyo. dapat dahil sa fiscal sya sa congress mas maraming ebidensya mas ok di ba ganoon ang demand ng mga fiscals? kaso selective lang sila sa mga reklamo. ang gusto yung mas mahina ang ebidensya. anong klaseng fiscal ito? are they lawyering aroyo? huh! niluluto talaga nila na patayin ang impeachment.

di ba sabi ni aroyo before “take your grievance to congress” nagyon na may mga substancial evidences na sigurado na guilty sya ay iba na ang plano nila. “KILL THE IMPEACMENT”. madaya talaga bruha kapit tuko. nakakagigil talaga. ano gusto nyo forget the impeacment? di naman yata tama yun unfair to people or even unfair to you mrs. aroyo. dapat ituloy kung nagkasala o hinde. doon ka magpaliwanag sa proper forum. you cannot govern kung may duda tao sayo. nakataya future ng tao sayo. hinde ka magiging epektibo kung hinde tuloy impeacment. hangang 2010 ang impeachment.

kawawa naman ang bansang pilipinas. huwag mong antayin na mangyari ang parliament on the street. daily pol. crisis haharapin mo.
hoy mga tongressmen. hinde sa iisang tao loyalty nyo. ang loyalty ay sa tao na syang nagbigay ng power sa inyo. baka nakakalimutan nyo. loyalty to one(gma) or loyalty to many(people of the philippines)? wake up tongressmen! IMPEACH GLORIA NOW!!!!

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timawang_batas

August 17th, 2005 at 10:32 am

Lately, patawa na rin pati si Edcel Lagman.

In other House Comittee hearings, he has the penchant to dismiss technicalities over substantive matters but now, he is doing more than sticking his big fat a__ in adhering to the technicalities “kuno”.

Prejudicial Questions or not, said views of him should be raised in the proper forum which in our case, the Senate, seating as the impeachment court.

Lagman doesn’t need a lecture in law, for he is considered as a legal expert inside and outside of Congress. But unfortunately, it seems that his mind is being clouded by partisan politics favoring someone.

Is he protecting her daughter who was implicated as a jueteng protector in the same vain as that of protecting the grand protector of all jueteng protectors?

Obviously, Juan knows the answer.

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timawang_batas

August 17th, 2005 at 10:59 am

Alecks,

I can’t access the comments of your post ” Keeping politics out of DepEd.

While I read in some post that you have fixed the problem, but in my case, it recurred back.

Please do something. thanks.

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benign0

August 17th, 2005 at 11:36 am

Ho hum. Buti pa mag-trabaho nalang kayo at mag bayad ng buwis. Leave all that political pettiness to the politicians. Tutal, kayo naman ang nag-elek sa mga congressman na yan di ba? So presumably they are out there to look out for your interests, di ba? 😀

ha ha!

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jackryan68

August 17th, 2005 at 11:36 am

I agree with timawang_batas regarding the DepEd post. I aready brought up the problem with comments to the post. I hope something can be done about it. Thanks

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ole

August 17th, 2005 at 12:24 pm

SIGURO… siguro lang po!

nang makapasa at manumpa ang mga abugago ni GMA, ang kanang kamay ay nakataas at habang nanunumpang ipaglalaban ang katotohan, at ang kaliwang kamay ay nakapatong sa pera at hindi biblia. kaya sa ngalan ng pera, ang mali magiging totoo,

magaral kaya kayong muli…

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timawang_batas

August 17th, 2005 at 1:14 pm

It’s a pity to see hecklers in Congress ( include those few who find their way to this blog ) to outrightly dismiss every legitimate taxpayer’s right to exercise his/her political rights as well as to air his/her grievances.

Kung sabagay ,hecklers are basically paid for the primary purpose sewing annoyance :)

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timawang_batas

August 17th, 2005 at 1:23 pm

Addendum : Some hecklers, after being paid, for the purpose of sewing annoyance, still got the guts to solicit for “donations”.

Ang kap’s ng mga mukha :)

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vonpogi

August 17th, 2005 at 2:12 pm

ALAM BA NINYO NA TOTOONG NAPAGALITAN SI MIKE DEFENSOR AT SI ALING GLORIA MISMO ANG NAGSABON KAY MIKE D. ANG ISSUE AY HINDI DAHIL SA PALPAK ANG GINAWA NIYA SA PALABAS NA TAPE KUNDI DAHIL SA BAYAD NI MIKE D. KAY DICKEY NG $3500. NABUKO SI MIKE AT BINIGAY PALA NI ALING GLORIA AY $10,000 PARA PAMBAYAD. KAYA NASABON SIYA NI ALING GLORIA. SABI NIYA KAY MIKE AY AKO PA ANG KINATALO MO AT KINURAKOT. NAWALA LANG ANG GALIT NI ALING GLORIA NG SABIHIN NI MIKE NA HUWAG PO KAYONG MAGALIT “MAAM” DAHIL HINDI NAMAN RIN NINYO PERA IYUN AT ANG PERA NA BINIGAY NINYO SA AKIN AY GALING SA TAONG BAYAN NA NAGBABAYAD NG BUWIS. :)

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shinobu

August 17th, 2005 at 2:17 pm

PCIJ, this morning the oppositionist presented some election materials as proof of cheating. they also conduction a press conference which ANC managed to miss in favor of a replay of STrictly Politics.

I’m sure you guys are on it already, just to be sure. hope you can feature some of the stuff here so the public can be the judge,
not the PET whose objectivity is suspect in many people’s eyes.

As for the raid in the San Mateo house. I wonder what crime is committed in possessing campaign materials and election paraphernalia of an election already finished.

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benign0

August 17th, 2005 at 2:57 pm

Panay kayo diyan habla nang habla sa presidente, and yet all those Marcos cronies and family members are galivanting all over our islands living it up. Anong klase naman yan. Kind of brings up the question of whether all this perceived “outrage” is just another example of the Fiesta spirit that Pinoys apply to all their pursuits.

Ano na ang $5 billion na ninakaw ni Macoy. Nobody seems the least bit outraged about that yet-to-be-recovered mullah. How about all those victims of his atrocities? Nagkalimutan na. Panay na ang hi-living ng mga Marcos pets diyan. What does that make Pinoys look like? Let me hazard a guess — gullible amnesiac fools.

With this kind of track record for idiotic amnesia, what makes you all think that this oust-Gloria moronia will amount to anything after the 24th month hence?

Party on dudes. 😀

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noelet

August 17th, 2005 at 3:17 pm

Benign0 isa pang delaying tactic yan against impeachment… look at PCGG, look at Yorac and look at where Gloria spent those Marcos money in escrow, ok?

Ang tao tinatanong impeachment tapos kung anu-anong walang kakawenta ipapasok mo. Your not asking the right question if you wanna tackle these Marcos loot. So behave. Hahaha

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tambuli

August 17th, 2005 at 3:32 pm

the marcos wealth is another issue, i believe that the government was given a golden chance to really pursue that during the early stages of the aquino regime, but what happened, people in the gov’t squandered that opportunity, we only hear of once profitable companies being run to the ground by government, not much change really.

with regards to the current proceedings, napakahaba and napakatagal, i hope the people still have the patience to listen to those congressmen arguing. like right now, d sila maka proceed because of questions of technicality. anyway, the people will be the final judge.

mabuhay!

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timawang_batas

August 17th, 2005 at 3:35 pm

Isa pang patawa sa Kongreso is in the person of Rep. Monico Puentebella ( LD, Bacolod City)

Dura Lex Sed Lex? Ay, sus Toto Monico, ka-instindi ka sang ginawakal mo? ( Oh boy monico, do you understand what are you blabbing about ?)

Why invoke Dura Lex Sed Lex in the first place when this impeachment thing is neither a criminal nor a criminal suit? Didn’t you bother to ask your lawyers? or consultants?

Or again, is there a price for taking sides? Is the price involves having Bacolod City as one of the venue of ASEAN Games? Thereby, expect a windfall of assistance from the national treasury?

If Dura Lex Sed Lex is the name of your game, then let your beloved patron face the music .

For only then you will truly appreciate the real essence of your blabbing.

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tonyvn

August 17th, 2005 at 3:36 pm

Probably BenignO is a die hard fan of GMA!… mandaraya ka rin ba?!… hope you`re not baka nabubulagan ka lang kaibigan! Yong perang narecover kay Marcos ay ginastos na ni GMA!…yong iba ginamit sa pandaraya sa eleksiyon, di mo alam yon?

You`re out of the topic my dear friend! ang usapan dito ay Impeachment at matagal ng patay si Marcos, huwag mo ng buhayin uli! hindi na siya pwedeng bumoto! okey! si Garcillano lang ang katapat niyan at wala ng Macoy pa! okey!..

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jun2001

August 17th, 2005 at 3:43 pm

Hay…. naku.

Ang mga politicians talaga sa bansa ay parang grade schoolers! Mahilig sa: We want it our way! We want it our way! Excuses……ayaw sumunod sa regulasyon at batas. Certaily showing good examples to our children.

Mga gaya gaya at ulit ulit. Nagkaroon lang ng isang people power. Almost any issue ang gusto people power agad. People Power 1, 2, 3,…ad infinitum! Certaily showing good examples to our children.

Lahat ng politiko, in almost any position, and anywhere in the country- pagtalo sa eleksyon, ang sigaw agad ay: cheating, dinaya! …people power! Certaily showing good examples to our children.

Meron pong batas, regulasyon, tribunal. Please.

Ang sagot: conspiracy! conspiracy! Basta ayaw namin, daya….daya!…conspiracy!Certaily showing good examples to our children.

Meron naman dyan gusto rebolosyon na parang bumibili lang ng tinapay sa kanto. Di man lang inisip ang cultural revolution sa china, ang mass killing sa russia, at kalagayan ng laos at cambodia.

Indeed, we are showing the best way, the best example for our children to follow. Keep on guys.

Congrats sa ating lahat.

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timawang_batas

August 17th, 2005 at 4:00 pm

gloria is showing the best example, not only to our children, but to the whole world.

First by showing that it is prefectly okey to cheat your way to presidency.

Second is by showing that is perfectly okey to say sorry without really being sorry at all.

Third is by showing that using the taxpayer’s money is perfectly okey to cover-up her misdeeds and misjudgments.

So on and so forth.

What a perfect model indeed :)

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butsukoy

August 17th, 2005 at 4:02 pm

Ha ha ha mga GMA diehards karaniwan katwiran sa blog
…..lahat nandaya
…. hindi nagsawa sa people power
…. technicalities
…..rule of law (kuno)
….. bakit si Marcos….ganun???

Mas masamang ehemplo sa ating mga anak at kabataan ang makita na tinotolerate natin ang isang presidenteng habitual liar, mandaraya at magnanakaw
Pakatotoo tayo, walang gitna dito, kinabukasan ng mga anak natin nakataya!!!

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shinobu

August 17th, 2005 at 4:08 pm

wow!
remulla:’confirmed Garci left July 15 for singapore. thence to UK- from DFA’.

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enlightened_pinay

August 17th, 2005 at 4:50 pm

Tama ka butsokoy, ang reasoning nila paulit ulit lang naman. I cant believe na may Pilipino pa ring ganyan. Itigil na ang paligoy ligoy at pag lilihis sa tunay na issue.
Ang bottomline sa issue na to e, nagkasala ba talaga? at ang nagkakasala eh dapat maparusahan hindi ba.

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jun2001

August 17th, 2005 at 5:07 pm

Hay…

GMA cheated. OK, was she convicted by what court?

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jun2001

August 17th, 2005 at 5:21 pm

I agree with you enlighened_pinay, nagkasala ba talaga? Has she been convicted?

Thats why there’s an impeachment – because we dont tolerate cheating diba?

But why do we read people writing: basta nagkasala sya, basta she cheated, basta magnanakaw sya etc. (timawang batas, butsokoy). Tara mag people power na tayo! Paligoy ligoy pa! Basta tama tayo – mali sila. We have the absolute truth – we are absolutely correct. I can’t believe ayaw maniwala ng mga Pilipino sa atin!

Sa political granstading na ito – ang nakikinabang lang ay ang mga young politicos ( na bumubungisngis na parang bata – pagnakakalamang sa debate at sagutan ang kapartido nila) who are gaining media coverage! Lahat talo.

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enlightened_pinay

August 17th, 2005 at 5:41 pm

Kaya lang jun2001, the way these majority congressmen are trying to delay the impeachment using technicalities as their tool, lumalabas na nandadaya pa rin sila. Ang accusation eh NAGNAKAW na sila ng boto, ngayon pati katotohanan ay ninanakaw na nila. Imbes na binibigyan nila ng chance ang bossing na makapag explain ng side nya (assuming na meron), yung pag dedelay nila, the people are feeling cheated even more, so you cant blame bloggers enmity and grudge. Eto na lang ang chance nila na makapag labas ng sama ng loob, using anonimity, hindi pa sila ma cha charge ng inciting to sedition.

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jun2001

August 17th, 2005 at 5:55 pm

Pinay….proseso po. Pag nag-aral ang tao, meron pong test. Pag nag-graduate meron pong board or bar. Proseso.

Hindi pede ang: i saw him. ahh Ok, she saw him. Ok, tara na, lets execute him, she saw him kasi. But sadly, yan ang mababasa natin dito, at yan din ang naririnig at napapanood natin sa tv. At yan actually and pinagtatalunan natin….

Would you rather that I joined you? tara na lets execute him, she saw him kasi.

And lets ignore: proseso? and repeat the cycle again. When? when she saw him/her again.

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enlightened_pinay

August 17th, 2005 at 5:59 pm

Jun, wala akong issue sa proseso but do you always equate PROSESO with KABAGALAN?
Hindi di ba.
Anong purpose ng PROSESO na yan kung matatapos ang impeachment sa 2010 pa.

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enlightened_pinay

August 17th, 2005 at 6:02 pm

tsaka hindi porket PROSESO tama na, ang ginagawa nila ngayon ay isang perfect example ng prosesong palpak. ayaw ko nun.

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soledad t. tubay

August 17th, 2005 at 6:20 pm

The blog, the street, the media- these are currently the only venues where we can ventilate the issues without being frustrated or impeded. The reason why the opposition revealed the evidence before the hearing today is because they are getting frustrated over the conduct of the proceedings obviously controlled by the majority who, also, very obviously, conspicuously cannot present a throughly logical, blunder-free, objective, line of reasoning. Halata talaga kung sino ang nagsasabi ng totoo at naniniwala na totoo ang kaniyang sinasabi at alam ang puno’t dulo ng kaniyang argumento- klaro, deretso at simple ang mga pangngatuwiran. Kapag naglulubid ng buhangin ang isang tao, mahirap itong maging solido dahil buhangin nga. Ang ginagawa ng mga anti-impeachment reps ay direct refutation lang of the issues. At obvious rin na pinagugulo ang dapat maayos naman. If Arroyo herself is pro impeachment why do you deny her that?
Kung ako siya at sigurado akong wala akong kasalanan, taas noo akong haharap sa Diyos at sa bayan. Kung magkamali kayo ng paghatol sa akin, iyan ay pananagutan ninyo at ng mga magiging anak ninyo (‘di ba sounds familiar?).

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jun2001

August 17th, 2005 at 6:28 pm

Pinay…tama ka. Dapat mabilis ang proseso. Hindi kaya ng bansa ang political scandal na ito hanggang 2010. Si Juan ang kawawa. Pati si Enrile nag rereklamo na – wala raw silang nagagawang batas dahil ang gusto daw ng karamihang Senador ay ang priviledge magspeech na la-ang.

Kahit sa America – ilang buwan din inabot ang impeachment case ni Bill Clinton. Diba ang kongreso natin ay may time table sila? Ang masasabi ko lang: patience.

Kong ayaw mo ng-patience. Cge tara lets.

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johnmarzan

August 17th, 2005 at 7:20 pm

Tanong lang, kung may wiling sumagot. In your opinon, kailan at paano papatayin ng allies ni GMA yung impeachment sa House? Hindi ko kasi alam kung gusto nilang mag-drag on ito hanggang magsawa tao, or papatayin nila kaagad bago pumunta si GMA sa US sa September (tuloy pa yun di ba?)

I think they’ll drag this thing and stretch out the proceedings till December, bago nila ito papatayin.

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claymore

August 17th, 2005 at 7:37 pm

Walang dapat katakutan kung walang kasalanan……
Napakasimpleng lohika na dapat iniuugnay ng mga maka-administrasyung mambabatas sa kalagayan ng nasasakdal na Pangulo.
Ano ang dapat katakutan?….bakit dapat piliin ang mga “salang” dapat ihatag at hindi “dapat”…..
Napakababaw na paliwanag na sa kadahilanang iyon ang naunang sakdal…anong klaseng paliwanag iyan galing sa mga mambabatas…

Sa pag-iisip ng isang pangkaraniwang tao, kung wala kang kasasalanan wala kang dapat “katakutan”…..kahit na isang katerbang asunto ang iyong harapin walang kuwenta iyan kung nasa panig mo ang katotohanan…..
Ngunit ano ngayon ang nasa sa isipan ng bawat Pilipino?…. Umpisa pa lang ibig ng busalan, ibig ng pahinain, ibig ng patayin…..
Sa kadahilanang may “kinatatakutan”,… sa kadahilanang hindi kayang harapin ang “katotohanan” ng isang Pangulong kinatawan ng salitang kasinungalingan….

Walang maraming pasakalye…walang maraming “paliwanag”……

Kitang kita ang ginagampanan ninyong papel mga “mambabatas”….
Nasa sa inyong mga kamay nakasalalay ang anumang “mangyayari” sa ating bayan……Kayo ay kinatawan ng mga mamamayang Pilipino…hindi ng Pangulo….lalo na ang isang nagpapanggap na ganito…..

Kami ay laging “nakamasid” at walang sawang sumusubaybay sa inyong mga “inaasal” sa ngayon…..
Paglinawin nawa ng aming mga panalangin ang inyong pag-iisip…..

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noelet

August 17th, 2005 at 7:53 pm

This blog can’t change what is happening in congress right now. What it aims is this very local discussions.

In this light, I believe it is the responsibilities of private groups, media, church, NGO’s, militants, farmer’s group, civil society to voice their opinion in trying to overturn these events.

Surveys wants to objectively measure disgruntled filipinos and it shows. But these voices will never be heard in public. What we need are leadership in all sector pressuring congress to atleast be objective in their proceedings.

But let us put a stop to those Metro Manila-ONLY surveys because it fuels agitation from rural and provincial sentiments.

If we could always see or hear on tv and radio what the different groups and civil society thinks about the impeachment hearing were going… then i feel it could sound alarm to Malacanan – which would caution their allied congressmen not to make so much noise as to bury Arroyo with shame in public trial.

The nearest would be the Black and White rally.

Again my formula is continued commisioning surveys regarding these national issues and letting local/group leaders (NOT POLITICAL LEADERS) assess our present crisis.

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ANAK_NG_JUETENG

August 17th, 2005 at 9:09 pm

Sana i-apply nila yung “PROSESO” ng Japan dito…

Pag may na buking, hara-kiri na agad.

Sabagay pag ganun nga yung naging PROSESO, ang matitira na lang sa mga pulitiko ay … ay … hmmmm… wala akong maisip.

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benign0

August 18th, 2005 at 8:16 am

As usual – lynch mob mentality. The same way we Pinoys happily lap up images of SUSPECTS paraded in front of the media PRE-TRIAL. Dished out by the media and eaten up hungrily by the public. A symbiotic relationship between two intellecutally bankrupt parties.

Isa na kayo diyan kayong mga “investigative journalists”. Under the pretense of “responsibility to the people” you guys pervert the concept of “freedom of the press” into the grotesque form you exhibit today.

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Here is the typical answer: “Basta guilty, patalsikin!” Spoken like true ignoramouses. 😀

And yet other criminals run free and worse get elected to congress (including former terrorist leaders) by the very same participants in what we can now call Fiesta Lynching.

Check what big suckers to the criminal mind Pinoys are:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/4-00_Leaders/despots.html

And that culture of crime that pervades our phoney society:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/agr-disagr/16-3-cultcrime.html

Excerpt:
“Crime is the commission of an act forbidden by law. In the Philippines, expressedly written statements that limit or prescribe individual actions in the interest of the common good — i.e. laws — from the lowliest traffic ordinances to the highest mitigations against economic plunder are routinely and blatantly flouted by Filipinos of all economic class and social status. ”

Happy reading! 😉

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timawang_batas

August 18th, 2005 at 8:27 am

Hi jun2001. Allow me to react on your slant : “But why do we read people writing: basta nagkasala sya, basta she cheated, basta magnanakaw sya etc. (timawang batas, butsokoy).”

It seems that your presumption hinges on the belief that there are some people who have convicted gloria already for being a cheat without the benefit of proper trial or without basis at all. Hence, you used the word “basta” before “nagkasala”, “she cheated”,” magnanakaw” and taking note of me and butsokoy.

I can’t speak in behalf of butsokoy ( unless he/she will sign me in as his/her counsel) but allow me in my “defense”.

In my opinion, gloria sinned…gloria cheated….gloria stole. ( all made in the context of presidential election)

My opinion of “conviction” was shaped by events and factual matters to some extent I was privy of.

Nevetheless, i don’t want you to be burdened by technical inferences as well as the use of the rules of evidence to prove my point.

But the bottomline is, if gloria claims that she did not cheat her way to presidency, why did it take her so long to refute such serious charge?

Here comes the impeachment complaint against her. Instead of allowing it to reach the Senate,what do we see?

gloria is no saint and she opted to remain that way.

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INSIDE PCIJ: Stories behind our stories » Some good news on governance

August 18th, 2005 at 10:20 am

[…] PINOYS have been finding it increasingly difficult to trust their national leaders. In a survey released early this month, for instance, Pulse Asia found that none of the country’s top government officials scored a majority approval rating among the respondents. In general, too, the national government was found to have failed in major governance issues such as restoring trust in government, poverty reduction, and curbing criminality. The tediously drawn-out impeachment proceedings against the President are not in any way helping to restore the public’s faith in their leaders. […]

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phval

August 18th, 2005 at 3:17 pm

If the opposition really wants to get on with the trial, then they should agree to the first complaint which was filed by Marcos lawyer Oliver Lozano last June 27.

We should defer all judgement until all evidence against GMA are presented. If we presume guilt, then we will not be objective all throughout the proceedings, unable to discern if evidence is substantial or not.

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noelet

August 18th, 2005 at 4:51 pm

Aren’t you concern about making too much technicality out of this mess? – objectively discerning wether evidence are substial or not? You think the garci tapes will be put to the open in the impeachment? But what actually a cort does is just to filter truth with technicalities.

Garci tapes have been evaluated by the opposition, the media and now by M. Defensor. Open your eyes bro. You still need an impeachment court to make a wild guess?

And unfortunately, the impeachment team do not want to file a weak case. And besides, the Lozano complaint was based on the mere controversy of the garci-tapes as seen in the media. Lozano never bothered to collect and investigate the matter of cheating but just the superficial things as seen on tv. So you think that that is a strong case? Or are you succumbing to the pressure of technicality?

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noelet

August 18th, 2005 at 6:02 pm

With so much technicality being put into ideologies… but the basics of sociology should not be forgotten.

“what happened to innocent until proven guilty?” – is a technical obscurity. its not even ideolical nor factual and it must not stand alone in a statement. In other words, its just a phrase.

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noelet

August 18th, 2005 at 6:05 pm

it is an insinuation of authority rather than justice.

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apollo

August 18th, 2005 at 11:40 pm

asus!!!

oh kitam sabi ko sa inyo kahit na anong hanap pa [kuno], by air and sea manhunt [hmmm… ‘di ba dapat kasama lupa?] eh hindi talaga makikita ang hinayupak na Garci….. dahil nga itinatago noong naghahanap….

buwahahahahaha…

oh lintek…. pakisagot naman ang mga sumusunod……

1. paano nagkaroon ng valid passport ang tarantadong si garci? tinangalan ng validity ang pasaporte niyan ah…

2. para tangapin ka kahit saang bansa eh kelangan merong tatak sa pasaporte mo na lumabas ka sa pilipinas…. paano nagkaroon ng ganitong tatak ang pasaporte ng kumag?

3. me hold order…. bakit ‘di nasunod? dapat ipakulong si art santos at company sa pagpuslit ke garci… sabi ni mr.santos hindi daw niya alam…. ganoon ba siya katanga?

4. bakit ngayon lang nagbigay ng press release ang DFA eh july15 pa daw sumipot sa singapore si garci at tumakas din?… [kainitan noon ng issue sa tapes & juetengate]… dapat tanggalin yang punetang ambassador at embassy staff sa singapore dahil puro inutil eh…

buwahahahaha….

itinatawa ko na lang ang banas ko……

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jddios

August 19th, 2005 at 7:44 pm

Media-Glorified Political Degradation

Philippine Politics have degraded into catastrophic proportion. Three months have passed and the same issues are being tackled by the Senate and Congress. As a transient Filipino in the United States, I am deeply troubled by what is going on back in our beloved Philippines especially with the present global oil crisis (even here in the US, the Americans are affected). Our politicians seem to not care. People’s money is being wasted into those countless hours of senate hearings in aid of legislation (or is it in aid of destabilization?). Jueteng hearings have been conducted in the past and there are existing laws against illegal gambling. Have they started to legislate based from their findings??? The jueteng menace can be solved through strict adherence, application and enforcement of the present laws on illegal gambling. A week has passed and the congressmen were still arguing and bickering on which impeachment complaint should be tackled. There are existing rules on what they were arguing about but they seemed inclined to bend the rules to advance their political leaning and whims. There could be an end for all these brouhaha—-they just ought to follow the rule of law. Because of this political degradation, legislation, the main task of senators and congressmen is now sinking towards oblivion.

Severe economic crisis now beset our already downtrodden nation, plunging it more into the darkness of uncertainty. Our politicians do not seem to care whether people are starving and dying because they are all busy pursuing their own egoistic political agenda. It can be deduced from their overly belligerent stance that most of them are driven by sinister motivations rather than serving the people. As such, they render a disservice to the nation by their empty blah-blah-blah’s, constant bickering and media grandstanding. Sadly, the media have become an open handed venue for their antics. The media would almost always fall prey into the trap of taking every politician’s word like hook line and sinker. The media should always be more cautious now because they have become unwitting instruments of the politicians’ egoistic political agenda (my relatives and Filipino friends here in the US would say they no longer watch the news on the Filipino Channel nor surf the internet to read news in the Philippines because they feel depressed watching and reading the same news for almost three months now). Whenever politicians held press conferences either to present a witness or evidence in the current political quagmire, there wasn’t any instance wherein media people asked why they (politicians) are presenting such to media first and not to the court of law or the proper forum. The media is a beacon of truth not of half-truth (it is said that a half-truth is a whole lie). The media can still redeem itself by being critical and vigilant on whether our squabbling politicians have done anything for the betterment of the life of the citizenry, most especially the poor.

Fellow Filipinos, amidst the plummeting economic situation, let us demand our politicians to get their acts together and work for the common good, let us demand the media to stop its glorification of political degradation.

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Salvatore

August 20th, 2005 at 3:21 pm

jjdios,

since you have posted your discourse on media on every blog page, you must accept that your discourse is fair game, understand?

don’t you blame the media for the mess we are all in. don’t you even PARTIALLY blame the media, or even hint that it can REDEEM itself from God knows what. The media, PCIJ especially, is what decent people have left, and don’t you tell them what to do.

you wrote: “The jueteng menace can be solved through strict adherence, application and enforcement of the present laws on illegal gambling.”

You reveal your ignorance of the situation here. Why? because if you have been following the news, you would know that the statement just cannot be true when the people in the offices who will adhere, apply and enforce the present laws are the ones allegedly involved in the gambling rackets.

furthermore, you wrote: “Whenever politicians held press conferences either to present a witness or evidence in the current political quagmire, there wasn’t any instance wherein media people asked why they (politicians) are presenting such to media first and not to the court of law or the proper forum.”

you probably mean the opposition politicians here. you’re saying that the opposition politicians shouldn’t be heard (or glorified) by media because they are merely grandstanding. granted that they are grandstanding, what about the evidence they are presenting? will the media simply ignore them—like the tampered ERs, the “yung dagdag, yung dagdag”, etc.? you would like these things not known to the citizenry? Aha! Huli ka!

finally you wrote: “let us demand the media to stop its glorification of political degradation”

baka naman ang gusto mo talagang sabihin ay: “let us demand the media to stop its political degradation of Gloria…”

Aysus! Huli ka talaga!!!!

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ANAK_NG_JUETENG

August 21st, 2005 at 12:03 am

you should listen to the garbled part before the “yung dagdag”.
if you use defensor’s style of reducing the speed of playback. you
will hear pgma’s line na translated as ‘garbled’ by pcij:

it starts with a call from pgma where from the tone of her voice
she is kind of worried that the opposition is trying to get namfrel
copies of the municipal COCs

GARCI: ay ok naman ang namfrel sa atin, they are sympathetic to us
GMA: OO OO PERO HUWAG NIYO SIYANG IMENTION NA NAMFREL DOESNT TALLY
GARCI: oho
GMA: pero yun nga yung dagdag yung dagdag

she is worried baka kasi makita ng opposition na hindi nagtatally yung
mga namfrel copies with the other COMELEC copies
sa nakikita ko, hindi lang padding ng votes ang pinaguusapan dito
GMA knows about the hocus-pocus performed sa dagdagbawas
and she has to make sure na makakalusot yon

Sa report ni Ms Yvone dito

http://www.pcij.org/blog/?p=137
http://www.pcij.org/blog/?p=140

nag tutugma yung sinasabi ni gma sa report ni Ms. Yvonne na hindi
nag ta-tally na namfrel : http://www.pcij.org/blog/?p=137

“A copy of the COC that Namfrel obtained of the voting in Poona Bayabao
(it gets the fourth copy) shows President Arroyo and Legarda leading
their opponents 4,700 to zero. But the ERs that the poll monitor was
furnished (Namfrel gets the sixth copy) reveal a big discrepancy: Neither
Poe nor De Castro obtained zero votes. In two tables prepared later by
the Namfrel chapter summarizing the ERs in 13 precincts in Poona Bayabao,
Poe got 767 and Arroyo 964, while Legarda obtained 1,252 and De Castro, 350.”

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